The conversation revolves around the importance of transparency in business, emphasizing its role in building trust and accountability. Scott De Long and Vince Moiso discuss instances where organizations lack transparency, with some resorting to deception or selective information sharing. They highlight the growing demand for transparency, especially among the younger workforce, and argue that businesses failing to adopt it may lag behind. The discussion extends beyond internal transparency to external communication with customers and vendors, emphasizing the positive impact of openness in business relationships. They share personal experiences, stressing that transparency, even when leading to challenging outcomes, ultimately aligns with their values and business integrity.
Transcript | Season 1, Episode 1
Scott De Long
Welcome to the CEO podcast. I’m Scott De Long. I’m here with Vince Moiso. Today, we’re going to be talking about transparency in the workplace. Vince, I’m interested in your take on how much you show people. What do you think about transparency?
Scott De Long
Welcome to the CEO podcast. I’m Scott De Long. I’m here with Vince Moiso. Today, we’re going to be talking about transparency in the workplace. Vince, I’m interested in your take on how much you show people. What do you think about transparency?
Vince Moiso
I think transparency is a must in the workplace. I mean, as far as, as far as what that does to a culture in a business. It just shows that as a business owner or an entrepreneur, the willingness to be vulnerable and expose the underbelly of the businesses, The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly. You know, I do believe in complete transparency. And by the way, it’s not for everyone. Not everybody is going to be able to handle that level of transparency. And at the same time, it creates this organic accountability within business and a culture that I think you can’t get otherwise.
Scott De Long
Vince, define transparency; what do you show? What do you keep hidden? I mean, obviously, if you have partners in a business, they’ve got to be on board to court. And there may be some things that people aren’t ready for yet.
Vince Moiso
I don’t know. I mean, I would argue it’s everything. I mean, you’re either transparent or you’re not. I mean, to me, the definition of transparency is very clear. It just means that I’m going to tell all right or I’m going to expose it all. I’m going to be transparent and thorough. I’m going to be able to see through you. And if you’re going to hold true to transparency, it does mean everything from the financials to decisions that are made; I just look at integrity as a part of that. Okay, what is integrity? Let’s just define that for a second. It is doing what you say and following through on what you say it’s keeping your word. That’s the essence of integrity. But people confuse integrity with morality. And they feel like it’s right or wrong. And it’s not about right or wrong because you can reset, you know, I might make a promise to you. Hey Scott, we’re going to meet tomorrow at one o’clock. Well, okay, if I can’t make it on time at one o’clock, then, you know, at least at some point an hour before I need to let you know, I’m not going to make it there by one o’clock. Well, it’s not that I didn’t keep my word; I reset what my original word was. You can hold on to integrity in a lot of different ways. And I think when you make it about morality, then you lose a lot of what I think the true answer is of integrity, which is the reason I bring integrity, in conjunction with transparency, which is a really important part of that. If I’m leaving something out that’s convenient for me, then I’m not holding true to my word, nor am I holding true to the fact that I told you I was going to be transparent, because then I should say, I’m going to be transparent with you on about 90%.
Scott De Long
Well, I think that might be the case. Give me this scenario. My partner and I are discussing employees and someone who might be on a performance improvement plan, for instance, or might not quite be there yet. But we think there might be some hope for them. Rather than just firing him, when do you let people know that that’s the store, now the employee, certainly that person transparent, but should everybody in the organization know that this guy is on a plan?
Vince Moiso
Okay, well, timing is what I heard you say there. That’s about timing, the timing in which you expose information to maybe the whole group. That’s different to me. You’re still being transparent because, eventually, everybody’s going to know. Eventually, transparency comes through, and the people that need to be in the know, you’re fully transparent about what’s going on. That’s okay. That’s all part of transparency. It doesn’t mean transparency now. Oftentimes, some things, let’s say the executive group, the C level group is going to work through and then eventually that information then gets disseminated to everybody. It doesn’t mean transparency now; it just means a commitment as a company to transparency as a whole, which means that eventually, look, I’m going to share everything about what’s going on, for example. With, you know, my current position as interim president, you know, with the company I’ve been with for the last four years, who was originally one of my clients, as you know, you’ve done some work for them as well, we’re totally transparent. When we put our one-page plan online, it has everything from revenue to cash flow to even our DSO goals. Everything’s on, but not everybody understands it.
Scott De Long
Well, that’s part of the problem. When I say transparency, if I’m going to get people involved in the financial documents and understand the finances of the company, which I do, which I think it’s important to do as well, I want to make sure that they understand what it is they’re looking at.
Vince Moiso
Well, let me just say this, let me interject, though, is that to me, it’s okay, what I’ve learned from running this transparent culture over the last four years, what I’ve learned is actually okay, if they don’t fully understand it, all, in order for me to keep my integrity within that transparency, this is what we offer. If there’s something you don’t understand and you need deeper detail on it, just ask; all you have to do is email me if you want to take some time for me to explain to you some of the things, trying to think of a specific example. EBADA is a good example. Not everybody understands the acronym EBADA. And they don’t quite understand exactly why you’d have an EBADA goal and what that even means. Why is that important to my business? Yes, it was critical to explain it to everybody in detail that everybody in the organization understood it. That it was a goal that the entire organization could buy into.
Scott De Long
I would agree with that. And when I say transparency, what I want to see is all of those documents that do not just suggest net operating profit EBADA, which can be completely different. And then the cash flow analysis as well, too, because when somebody sees that I’m making a ton of money, and I’m broke because I’ve got a growing business and struggling, the lower-level employees don’t if they don’t understand that, well, that guy’s getting rich, and where’s mine and all that kind of processes. There are some struggles within that,
Vince Moiso
There is Fallout, there is. And I’ve experienced that Fallout. You’re going to have some inherent organizational change. That organizational structure may not stay in place because it’s not for everybody. Transparency is not for everybody. And I understand why a business might choose not to be transparent. However, I can just tell you that in the success of this business that I’ve been a part of for the last four years, and certainly any business that I’m a part of, transparency is going to be a big part of it. And I’ll tell you that even with the Fallout that you get from it, there are some people who just don’t want to be a part; they don’t want to know that much. That’s okay. Because I think you only grow, you only get better as a business as you move on to that. The flip side to what you said, this is what I heard, what I heard was, you know, essentially, okay, well, if they don’t have a clear understanding between, you know, cash flow and that net operating profit or EBADA? Then, they might be confused as to whether the business is actually capital-rich or not.
Scott De Long
Is that job at risk? I mean, that’s what the ground-level employees worry about.
Vince Moiso
Initially, as we started to really launch in and move forward and be totally committed to this level of transparency, by the way, it’s one of our values, and we call it to get real and get real has, you know, integrity, transparency, and authenticity. Those are the three components of what we call real value. Now, with that transparency, we understood that not everybody’s going to fully understand it, and we had that exact thing happen because we were capital-poor because we had too much debt on the books. And our cash flow wasn’t keeping up with the level of interest payments that we had, and certainly the interest expense and then certainly some of the expenses that needed to be scrutinized and inventory. Inventory is a big issue here, and everything else is all the GNA that we all look at on a regular basis. When there are people, for example, what you’re talking about is you’ve got the sales department, you got the marketing department, and then you got to finance, finances living in that world. The finance, the financial people, they understand the accountants, you know, AR AP, the controller, everybody, they, they understand it, because that’s the world they live in every day. They know that look, no one’s getting rich off of what we’re doing right. Now, sales and marketing, if you don’t quite understand finance, there looking at that, when you get that transparency, and they certainly there were a lot of questions. You know, my job in running that business and being a leader in that business is to make sure that they understand it at every turn. Transparency isn’t just about, oh, hey, by the way, here’s the information about the business, it’s great. I’ve got to spend that extra time coaching the team to make sure that they get enough details that they’re satisfied with understanding the information that we’re giving them.
Scott De Long
Sure, not just what but why. We’ll go to the why behind that. Why is it important to know this? And how does that matter within a business, whether we’re a stable business, whether a growing business, whether we’re one that’s in trouble from time to time, and I’ve had a client in the past that experienced negativity or a lot of people jumping ship when they were trying to be transparent, and they saw, and in their transparency, they’re showing negative financials. And people take a look at it and say, oh, my job’s not secure, and they resume started in the street. That happens; that’s the real thing. What do you do in that scenario?
Vince Moiso
Well, not realizing, of course, they’re hitting the resumes or hitting the street. And those folks aren’t realizing that that’s true of every company. And most likely, of every company they’ve ever worked for, those previous companies just weren’t transparent or worse. They were lying. I’ve been a part of organizations I’ve, I’ve consulted for organizations that they lie to their employees, which they’re certainly is it eliminates fear, it’s an approach, and they’re trying to do it with good intention because they eliminate the fear yet, it turns around, and I’m probably being harsh, just calling it a flat out lie, I think I think the intention is, is almost what we do with our children. We soften the blow or we tend to be selective with what we tell our children. And I think there are business owners and entrepreneurs that take that same approach where, hey, I’m going to just tell them what they need to know. Because I’ve got to keep the lights on, I’ve got to, I’ve got to keep them motivated. I am now experiencing the other side, which is transparency. I’m all for transparency; I would never run a business without it. At this point, I don’t think that that soft touch, in my opinion, this is my opinion. I don’t think there’s a place in the world today; I don’t think there’s a place for it. And I’m going to tell you this: the youth that’s up and coming and this is the future of business, frankly, and this is who we’re hiring. And this is who is going to get us to the next level. In my opinion, they require transparency. I think they want transparency, which is different from the workforce that is split by a decade or two decades.
Scott De Long
They’re also training those people that are a decade and two decades older than them as well. And what I’m finding is that those people are more interested in understanding. Well, first of all, not just what they’ve impacted the businesses, they personally impacted the businesses. Being transparent in employee communication, the one-on-one type of communication, is really important as well, but how does that impact their livelihoods and the livelihoods of the parent, their peers, and the people that they’re working with? Yeah, that’s a big deal. It is a big deal. And it’s becoming more of a big deal. And it’s the youth that is forcing that big deal upon us older folks to recognize that stuff matters.
Vince Moiso
We’ll think about the information that they have access to that everybody has access to in any business. I mean, we’re living in an Amazon age. When you think of Amazon, you know, it’s instant gratification. It’s information that will. Okay, I’ll take it beyond that; think about Google; the number one search engine on the planet is Google. Did you know what the number two search engine on the planet is? Take a wild guess.
Scott De Long
I would imagine Bing.
Vince Moiso
YouTube. Owned by Google. Everybody’s either watching videos and by the way, you can get whatever you want on YouTube, just about any information to do anything.
Scott De Long
I learned about creating podcasts on YouTube.
Vince Moiso
The point is this: access to information has never been quicker than it is today. The demand for transparency is only growing. I think if you’re not, I’m going to go out on this limb; I’m going to say this. If you’re not on that boat, that boat has sailed. I mean, really, really, the demand for transparency is already here. And if you’re not getting onboard that ship, I think you’re going to be late to the game. That’s my opinion. My question for you is, are you on board with that? Or are you not on board with that?
Scott De Long
Well, it’s really simple for me; it’s on board with it. I’ve got another client that has struggled with delivery times. And you’ve probably experienced that in the manufacturing business where you make commitments and can’t make them because of whatever things happen. And this client, in particular, flat-out told me, we cannot be honest with these people; we have to not tell them the truth and make it okay. Why can’t you work with them? I’m so much into transparency I can’t work with them because of that, I think that people can handle information. They can handle the truth. They want to know, if you’re having problems, what are you going to do to fix the problems, not just We have a problem; you’re not getting your delivery; finish that statement and keep going. That’s a comment. It’s not a period, we have a problem, we’re not going to be able to make that delivery. But here’s what we are going to do. And here’s what we’re going to solve this for the future because I think all failures have, even if it’s something delivery, our learning experiences. And if we’re not learning from what we’re making, that’s when it becomes a failure.
Vince Moiso
You know, it’s funny because you just brought up something hugely important. This whole time, we’ve been mostly speaking about transparency internally. For the organization. What about externally? Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more. And we’ve adopted transparency across all lines. I mean, whether it’s a vendor or a customer, it doesn’t matter what it is, but externally, it should be full transparency. And in fact, like, you know, what amazes me is the conversations that I have with customers, where we’ve incorporated full transparency, which is so much easier. Yeah, it’s so much easier. I mean, it’s crazy because what can you say, you know, if you’re on the other end of that, and you’ve just been vulnerable enough to really expose the real issues that are going on the real issues? What are you going to say? You can’t. It doesn’t become a yelling match. It doesn’t become this argument. It’s just, hey, the first statement, and I just had one of those calls, actually, this morning, ironically, as we’re having this conversation via podcast, is my first statement on that call was, I just want to be transparent with you. Even if that means that you’re going to have to take your business elsewhere, that’s how I started the conversation.
Scott De Long
And what does that do? Your client is on the other end of the phone, and their shoulders drop a little bit completely. They relax. It’s not like I’m looking for a fight. No, I’m telling you the truth.
Vince Moiso
Then you can see that in that conversation, it became collaborative. Not argumentative. Let’s talk through what you can do versus what you can’t do. And we just talked through all that. Then, we were able to go through the options and what the real options were. And then, ultimately, he was able to make a decision one way or the other. Sure. I just got notified about an hour before we started this podcast that we’re actually going to retain that business. I don’t know, you know, that’s one example. But I was prepared this morning; when I woke up knowing I was going to have that call, I was prepared that I was going to lose that business.
Scott De Long
Well, I’ve had just the opposite happen to me, and it does. We had a client, and it was actually with that same company I was talking about, and I said, no, that I’ll handle this, I’ll call the client, and I’ll talk to him. The guy ended up hanging up on me and then badmouthing me to the sales guy and that sort of thing. And it’s still worth it to me to make sure that I’m here to tell you the truth. Because the next time you have a question, you know, you’re going to get the truth versus some lie. Some miscalculations, some whatever. I was laughing earlier when you were talking because what went through my mind was, um, The A Few Good Men, the Tom Cruise, Jack Nicholson; you can’t handle the bullshit, they can’t handle the truth.
Vince Moiso
Well, some can’t, to your point, and you said it earlier. And I think what you just gave was a perfect example of that is not everybody; it’s just not going to land on everybody. The appropriate way. And some people want what they want. And when they can’t get what they want, they’re just going to move on, or they’re going to hang up on you. You know, and that’s okay. Again, I didn’t have when I started the call this morning to have any false expectation that being transparent was going to yield me I’m going to save this result, like I’m going to save it; I didn’t go into it, thinking I got to lie, I got to do everything I can to save this. I moved on from that; I think that’s part of what transparency does for you are you move on from expecting this result; you’re just committed to being transparent; it’s going to land, or it’s not going to land, but the commitment is to transparency.
Scott De Long
Here’s where I go with that this: when it doesn’t land, for whatever reason, whether it’s with employees, or whether it’s customers, or with bankers, or whether it’s whoever, they’re just not my people. I didn’t; they weren’t going to be my people. They can’t handle this, from me, I’m being vulnerable because it is vulnerable, you’re going to lose, I’m going to lose a big order here, or this person may quit or all that, and they can’t handle that, then they’re not my people. And I’m okay with that. I just am because of the sleeping thing.
Vince Moiso
Well, I think when you, for lack of a better way to explain it, you get religion on that. And you eliminate these expectations, always expecting a certain result from it? I think it just makes life a lot simpler; it makes your business a lot simpler. That has been my personal experience. And, you know, ultimately, the essence of what we’re trying to do here is really just share from experience. And if I can be vulnerable and be transparent and just share from experience, it has lifted a tremendous weight off my shoulders; I get to be one person all the time, just me, and we get to be one business; I’m going to literally walk up to you, and you’re going to know everything about it. And I don’t have to worry; I don’t have to think about what I said to Scott yesterday, or what I said to Brian yesterday, or what I said to whoever the day, the week before; I don’t have to recall it. It’s all the same. It’s all one thing. It’s all the truth. It’s all transparency. And you know I have a business partner in this scenario. And you know what? What’s important about two business partners is alignment.
Scott De Long
How about parents?
Vince Moiso
Parents, it’s just total alignment.
Scott De Long
My wife thinks this way, I think this way. This applies to customers and employees as well. Here’s what ties into my favorite topic: trust and building trust. In having trust and all of that, that customer who doesn’t trust you will be calling your partner to see if he gets a different answer than he gets from you.
Vince Moiso
It doesn’t work. Otherwise, here’s what I know: the two of us don’t even have to have a conversation. If customer X or employee Y calls up my business partner and asks a certain question, he’s going to have the same answer that I’m going to have. And the beauty of that is because we’re transparent, and I don’t have to worry about what he said, or I said, or anything like that, is I just know, I already know what he’s going to say he already knows what I’m going to say. And that is one of the most beautiful parts or essence of just being all in for transparency. It’s the mom and dad scenario.
Scott De Long
Absolutely. I believe. Listen; sometimes things don’t go well. I’m transparent with somebody; I tell him the truth. And I lost the business. Fine, I’m okay with that. No, do I want to lose business? No, of course, but I’m okay with that. Because they’re not my people. I got that going on. They’re not my people. And I know that if they check up on me, they’re going to get the same answer from the other person. They’re going to get the same answer. And that builds a level of trust between employees, vendors, whomever we’re talking about, customers, all of the same people, all these people. If they can’t trust me, then why would they want to do business with me? I can’t trust them. Why do I want to do business with them? We got this method that I developed in my educational process, which I call the circle of trust. And you’ll see kind of an image of this thing. And I think that trust can be built faster and deeper using this process. As part of the process, I learned from EO and their experience within EO. It starts with respect and the respect that we’re talking about for human dignity, not the respect that I know that you’re going to deliver. And you’re awesome, and you’re this and that, but just human dignity, what do we have in common? And can we start there? Listen to understand. Stephen Covey’s concept. I know you like Covey isn’t
Vince Moiso
I love it. Seven habits.
Scott De Long
Listen to understand instead of listening to reply; share from experience to heal. Share from experience, as opposed to telling you should do right and then deliver on the promise. And if I’m telling you the truth, there is no chance that you’re going to find out from somebody else that I’m lying to you. That is just the way it works. That’s delivering the promised piece that process ends up building trust; transparency leads to trial, but that doesn’t mean trust. But it leads to.
Vince Moiso
Plus, the foundation for integrity. You know, we started the conversation in which I was relating integrity to transparency as a part of it. It’s an integral part of it. And I think everything you just talked about is just the essence of keeping your word. You know, and I think when you’re transparent, you almost don’t have to worry about it. You know, it’s just, it just becomes ingrained that keeping your word becomes synonymous with transparency.
Scott De Long
You’ve said that it’s not for everybody. It’s not going to land everywhere. And I said, when it doesn’t, it’s not my peep. They’re just not my people. How do you handle it when your transparency is stepped on ab, used, or taken wrong? Or what? Yeah, I’m sure you’ve had situations where you tell someone the truth, and they don’t react well.
Vince Moiso
Well, it’s a great question and a relevant question, in the sense that if you heard what I said, you know, earlier, it’s just that, you know, I’ve let go completely of any false expectations. I don’t expect that it’s going to land or not land; either it is or it isn’t. And it is what it is, I say that often. It just is what it is. And I’m committed to transparency, whether it lands on you or not, if it’s not in my control, I can only control myself, I’m clear. I’m clear on that. Either you’re going to get it, or you’re not going to get it. And I feel the same way, then then, you know, and if you don’t get it, and you don’t want to get it, then my business is not for you. You’re not my peeps; you’re just not. And that’s okay. No judgment, no judgment whatsoever. But okay, great. You’re not a fit, you’re not a fit for my culture, you’re not a fit for my business. And you’re certainly not a fit as a client. And I have let clients go, I think early on in, in starting my coaching and consulting practice, I took on a few clients that today, I would not take on.
Scott De Long
I just let one go yesterday, actually. And it’s hard to do because people want to pay you for your thing. And you want to deliver your thing. Yeah. But if they’re not going to receive your thing, then they’re not for me, not my people. You said something earlier about expectations. What happens when you don’t?
Vince Moiso
Well, let me interject that because I just came up with a thought to really answer your question. I felt like maybe I didn’t totally answer your question. But I also mentioned earlier that transparency creates this organic accountability at the same time. And you when you make this promise of transparency, and it’s a value in your business, and you constantly drive the values of your business, one of which I mentioned is Get real. And we constantly drive that. And when that’s ingrained in your culture, then you’re going to get accountability from all sides. I don’t need to be the one to call somebody out. They’re going to call each other out.
Scott De Long
What happens when you don’t, though?
Vince Moiso
When don’t I call somebody out?
Scott De Long
No, not when you don’t call someone out when you’re not getting the transparency back from the people that you prefer.
Vince Moiso
That’s what I’m saying: I don’t even have to be the one to call them out because others will call them out. Now, if it’s a one-on-one situation, it’s an easy conversation because I can simply say, are you really getting real with me there? You know, that is the essence of what our business value is. Because everybody around here is transparent. Getting full transparency back? It’s just a reciprocal relationship. The expectation is that everybody is transparent. It’s not just a one-way street.
Scott De Long
That’s great. And here’s one of the positive benefits of making sure that everybody is I have had to fire fewer people. Like, you’ve had some employees that might not be telling you the truth. They are not being as fully transparent as I am with them. They will realize this is not the right fit for them; they will leave before they get called out on it.
Vince Moiso
That’s exactly what happens.
Scott De Long
Yeah, it works. It worked. Not 100%. But more often than that. I’ve had to fire fewer people. Because the culture that we’ve set doesn’t fit them, and that’s fine. Go do your thing where you do your thing. Yeah. Just like I do it here.
Vince Moiso
But we’d love to hear your questions. Your comments: how do you feel about transparency? Is your business transparent? Is the business you’re working in transparent with you? Are you transparent back? Is that a value that the business has? I’d love to just hear any comments or feedback in both directions. You know, maybe you feel that transparency isn’t for you, maybe transparency doesn’t have a place in the workplace. We’d like to hear all of that feedback from you, Scott, before we finish up here. Now, I’m big on our local beers, you know, and we’ve got some local breweries that the two of us, but what we just had was very tasty and was far from a local brewery, yet it had a similar taste to the bee that we both liked.
Scott De Long
There’s a beer that we like, which comes from artifacts in San Clemente. Listen, this isn’t promotional stuff. We’re not getting paid for this. We like beer. This artifacts company has one that calls orange you different; it’s an IPA that has an orange tint to it. I happened to be at a store the other day, and I found something from the Kona Brewing Company. That’s called star fruit, orange IPA. And it’s mass-produced. It’s not a craft brew. But damn, it was pretty good.
Vince Moiso
That’s pretty good. I’ve never had it before. And pretty dang good. And I will tell you that the artifacts orange are different IPAs that are hands down on my top five list as an IPA, and you can’t taste the citrus,
Scott De Long
But it’s not like this fruity. Like a thing with an umbrella in it. It just lightens it up.
Vince Moiso
I think, and knowing enough about IPAs, I don’t brew my beer. I’m not going to pretend that I’m a brewmaster by any stretch, but I know enough to be dangerous. And I would say that that, you know, the citrus flavor tends to knock down that real Hoppy, that hoppy taste, and that aftertaste,, which is typically strong in your pure IPAs. What I like about that is the ones that do it. Okay. Pliny the Elder right from the Russian River. I think it’s one of the best that you could drink. And you know, these guys have done a great job knocking that down without being full, you know, having that full citrus flavor.
Scott De Long
I call it take the edge off. IPAs have that hoppy bitterness that I like it. And this just takes the edge off. It’s kind of cool.
Vince Moiso
That was good. All right. Well,
Scott De Long
Hey, thanks for listening. You can ask questions. Get on Vince’s website, get on his email list, and get online. Ask questions, challenge us, and we want to hear where our Pollyanna attitude about transparency doesn’t work for you. Give us some challenges we’d like to address.
Vince Moiso
That’s the CEO podcast.
Scott De Long
Thank you.
Vince Moiso
Stay tuned for more.
Scott De Long
Alright Bye.
