In this CEO podcast episode, Scott De Long and Vince Moiso together with Scott Epringham, discuss their personal experiences with vulnerability. Scott De Long reflects on the absence of discussions about vulnerability in his upbringing, while Vince Moiso shares his struggle to embrace vulnerability, rooted in the macho culture of his Italian Catholic family. The conversation delves into the power of vulnerability, referencing Brene Brown’s definition and its impact on personal connections. The hosts also explore vulnerability in the workplace, with Scott Epringham narrating his own story of financial loss, shame, and eventual recovery, emphasizing the authenticity and relatability that vulnerability brings to personal and professional relationships.
Transcript | Season 1, Episode 6
Scott De Long
Welcome to the CEO podcast. I’m Scott De Long here with Vince Moiso and Scott Epringham. Today’s episode is the first time we’ve had guests; thank you for participating with us; I appreciate that. And we’re a little leery; I was a little leery about that because this was supposed to be a conversation between a couple of guys just hanging out. And then we realized that having three guys hanging out or three people doesn’t have to always be guys wouldn’t be a bad thing and bring some other experiences in into this. Vince introduced me to you, and not having met you before, I thought I would have a phone call. He told me the topic that you’d want to talk about, and your story about overcoming adversity and doing all that kind of stuff would be a great topic for us. But as you and I were talking, I was on vacation; I was sitting in a hotel room, and it hit me like, “No, that’s not the story.” The story is about vulnerability, one of the things that I didn’t learn growing up, and I’m sure you didn’t learn growing up, and I know he didn’t learn growing up in this macho world of guys. Vulnerability wasn’t something that we talked about. And I really wanted to talk about that. And the power of vulnerability. I wanted to find it. And then I’m going to let you guys talk a little bit. There are a couple of definitions. Brene Brown, who is an expert on this, wrote a book on it, Daring Great. On vulnerability, she defines it as uncertainty, risk, and emotional risk in particular; my mind is a little bit different from mine. My definition of being vulnerable is being yourself. And showing yourself not just being it but presenting it and being out there. I didn’t learn that till I hit 50. It was 50 years before I learned that was a positive thing. And we’ll talk a little bit about that later. But Vince, I want to hear your connection to vulnerability and whether it’s a thing for you, whether it’s something that matters, whether it’s something that you run away from, where you are on the vulnerable.
Vince Moiso
I’ve really run. I’ve run away from it. Most of my life. You know, as you alluded to, I think you got vulnerable in that introduction; by the way, Scott was a great lead-in. Man, you know, I mentioned to both of you that since we’ve got to Scott’s here, I’m just going to refer to you both as your last names moving forward. Here we go. De long, thank you. I’ve avoided it. I’ve avoided it. I grew up in an Italian Catholic family. I’m the youngest of five. I had, you know, both my parents, devout Catholics. My dad is Italian. His parents came over during World War Two and didn’t speak a word of English. In Italian families, it’s all about family. And this whole concept of omerta, which is silence, if you ever saw the Godfather. I grew up in an environment where I don’t show emotion; you can’t cry. You know, don’t really tell anybody what’s really going on. You know, it’s just, you know, keep a smile on your face, smile and wave, boys smile and wave. You know, and you just move on. I grew up with that. It certainly helped me in my football career because, you know, you can equate it to a word that I love: poise, which means staying calm under pressure. But what that means is that you can’t really show emotion. I think one thing I can tell you is that for more than half my life, my EQ has been in the toilet. I was incredibly stoic, and I adopted stoicism for my business career and everything else because it’s all that I knew. Getting vulnerable was this foreign concept. In fact, I like Bernie Brown’s definition. I relate to it most because, to me, vulnerability means putting yourself out there and then putting yourself out there means putting yourself out there for the scrutiny of the world. Why I would need to do that is a better question. I want to know how vulnerability has shown up, you know, in your life. I just want to say this because I know your story, and you have graced me with your own vulnerability in telling your story. And it really resonated with me. And we’re in, you know, for the audience to understand. We are in an entrepreneur’s organization together and have crossed paths many, many times. I remember being, you know, my memory of you is being at our chapter retreat and watching you get vulnerable. And I thought, I haven’t. I’ve still got so much to do, so much to learn. Because I’m not even at that level of vulnerability, I was blown away that you could get up and tell your story the way that you did, and I just thought, I’m still holding back. You know, that was the first thing that came to me was, I’m still holding back. I feel like I’m vulnerable. And I’m not that vulnerable. And that was the impact that you had on me. Honestly, I was so excited to have you on this podcast with us to have this conversation. And when De Long said, we’re going to talk about vulnerability, can you share with us where that has shown up in your life?
Scott Epringham
But I do want to touch on something that you said that situation that you’re referring to at that retreat; I must confess that was a reluctant vulnerability where there was to set the stage for Scott; there was a speaker there. And he had everybody write a poem about a challenging issue in their life. And like I’d never written a rap before. He’s like, just don’t think it doesn’t have to rhyme, just let it flow. And he goes, that thought that you just had about something you didn’t want to think about or write it down. That’s the one you want to think about. That’s when you get down. And the thought I had was a really, really bad situation in my life. When I was in high school, there was stuff going on. My mom had cancer at the time, and my dad was battling alcoholism. And so, it’s a private thing written down. I wrote it down. And I never thought I would ever share it with anybody. I forget what he said. But he said something like, who had a thought? And that first thought scared you a little bit. And I’m like, well, shit, I don’t mind raising my hand. And I raised my hand. He goes, you did? He goes, you might just stand it up. And you might just be Sharon. I stood up, and he asked what the thoughts I shared just like a sentence was like, and he got me by doing it in an incremental sort of vulnerable selves. Because I did my senses. I was in a challenging situation when I was a kid. It’s a great, great, well, give him a round of applause. And why don’t you come on up here? And do you mind sharing it? And then, by that time, I was already standing up and applauded. I can’t take credit for exactly, you know, jumping into that and singing up; I’m really going to share this. But next, a new man in the front of the room, bawling and reading this. One of the most challenging situations.
Scott De Long
You did that, and you’re emotional, and all that is happening in front of these strangers. People that you don’t know. How many of those people look down on you?
Vince Moiso
Not only did I find myself, but you also know, suddenly questioning my inability to get vulnerable or go deep? Go beyond 5%. I mean, that was 1%. I mean, there’s no question you went to the 1%. I’m sitting there questioning my ability to even really, truly be vulnerable. I’m holding back the tears. The irony of all that I’m hearing is your story. I’m feeling your story and wanting to cry, and I still find myself saying you can’t cry in front of you. You’re not allowed to cry in front of the rest of these people, especially as someone else’s story. It was like I was watching a movie. You know, watching a movie happened in front of me, and I’m sitting there, go. Don’t cry. You can’t cry. You can’t do this, though. You know, biting my lip. I mean, it’s just like, it’s so ironic because I hate that behavior has become so innate in me that I can’t let go.
Scott Epringham
But it is as you’re describing it. I also think that, at the time, I wasn’t so concerned about people judging me. But when I started, when it got raw, I also realized I was in the deep end of the pool. And I don’t know what the metaphor is. But I was just out there, sharing something. And the interesting thing is, I never actually even if it was that memory that I had pushed down. Now, I am 50 years old, sharing it for the first time. As I was going through that, it was a cathartic experience; instead of being alone in my room or alone in my office, I was alone with 30-40 other people sharing that. And so, it was a very different experience to go through that cathartic thing, and I can, at the same time, knowing very cleansing, to get that shit out of me. Because I remember the thought the only thought I had was, I got to get the shit out of me. Because I had been, I’d been stuffing that one memory down for so long. And then I remember I even got choked up. Think about it now. Because at the end, he was like, what did you hear? What did you learn or something about that? It was a powerful experience, and I put that behind me because I hadn’t wanted to think about it. It was horrible.
Scott De Long
I think it’s more than that that’s big in it. It’s enough. And I think it’s more than that. And I think one of the things that being vulnerable does is, why did Vince want you on this podcast? Because he connected with you because of that story? Had you not told that story, you might not have had that connection in the first place. While it was good for you internally, it was good for the audience. And good for the connection. And good for the relationship. I want to meet that guy. And I want to know him, I want to be, and for you, Vince, like, here’s what I’m seeing because I know you a little bit. And while you said I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough on that one. No, at all. It did his challenge you. I was going to challenge you. And that’s good for him that you challenged.
Vince Moiso
The power of vulnerability. And I think it’s something that we miss because we’re taught something else. And we don’t quite realize the power that has and, you know, beyond just the fact that you shared it, and I watched everybody rally around you, you know, that was the power of that experience share of you standing up and being okay with me and vulnerable to that level? Just doing it right. I mean, you just did it. I don’t know if you’re okay with it or not. Sounds like you weren’t. You were having your own internal conversation about whether that was going to work out for you or not. But whatever. In the end, I watched everybody just completely rally around you. And there weren’t many dry eyes in the house. Power was twofold for me in that experience and other experiences of vulnerability, but that was one of those moments where I really recognized the full power of it. The full power of it is when you are truly vulnerable. There’s this authenticity that comes through at a level. You know, you rarely know. And everybody feels it. The energy that comes from it, everybody in the room felt it, everybody. Another power is that it can immediately connect you to everybody in the room, and everybody in the room feels connected to you. Right at that moment, I was done.
Scott De Long
Did you know that? Did you know that they connected to you?
Scott Epringham
No, at the end of the process. It was such an internal process. And it was like dredging up old things. And I remember I had my head down for some of it because I was choking back the tears. And there was a period where I think I was silent for 10 or 15 seconds as I tried to get the words out. And then finally, in the end, I forget the guy’s name, but the moderator, whatever the guy, was wonderful. And then literally everyone stood up and, you know, got to his house, and they cried some more. But it was an interesting experience. It was a good experience.
Vince Moiso
It was an incredible moment. No question. I’ll share this. If I might, I want to share a personal experience. And this was when I went through a landmark. I did landmarks worldwide, and I went through the whole curriculum. I was in the advanced course before I realized what the deep-rooted issue for me was as I was going through that self-development in my life. This is eight years ago at this point, seven-eight years ago; I recognize that the moment in which I buried my feelings and made this really silly choice to just move on from it and never speak about it again, you know, as you talked about, you said the words earlier, those were things at that moment that you hadn’t talked about that you had buried. You forgot about it. And now was coming up for you. I mean, that’s incredible, that’s the damage that it does to us internally, and mentally and emotionally. My dad passed away at the age of 62; he was very, very young.
Scott De Long
I am glad you finally said 62 is very young, but I’m only 61.
Vince Moiso
No, trust me, it’s your 61 Younger, 61 years young. In my dad, I mean, you know, imagine next year, you’re not being on this planet anymore. You know, your physical body’s gone, and the toll that has on your family and all the people that you’ve impacted in this world. I mean, that’s what my dad left this earth, you know, that’s the impact that he had is 62 years old, and a devastating disease; I don’t wish Alzheimer’s and dementia on anybody when he had an early onset. At the age of 58, is when he was diagnosed. And it was about a four-year stint. No one wanted to read the eulogy. You know, like I said, I’ve got four other siblings; I’m the youngest of five, and my mom certainly didn’t want to do it. And I have no idea, actually thinking back, why I stepped up to do it. I had a letter because I was in Italy at the time, and I was on my second tour of playing football in Europe. And I came back a little early because all this was happening. And my dad passed away at a hospital two hours before my plane landed. I didn’t even get to say goodbye, I didn’t really. There was nothing; it was just left open, you know, unfinished. And I had written a letter to him that I had sent prior to my coming out. And it arrived the day after he passed. And he never got to read that last letter that I wrote to him. The eulogy, I stood up and read this letter, and I couldn’t get, you know, any word out without just, you know, holding back the tears; you could hear it in my voice; you could see it in my body language, all of it. And I remember internally just being so embarrassed by that, that I said, I finished it, I just said, I’m going to get through this, I’m going to finish it, I finished it. I stepped off the podium because there were, you know, 200 people there. I’m never going to feel like that again for the rest of my life. And I took all of that, the grief, the guilt, you know, all of these things, like the regret, you know, all of that. And I just said, Here you go, I’m going to put it into this nice little ball, and I’m going to bury it as deep as it can go, never going to talk about it again, never going to worry about it, not going to think about it, it’s gone. For the next 17 years after that, I didn’t have a conversation with my mom, didn’t have any vulnerable conversation with any of my siblings about it, nothing. None of us talked about what we had experienced with our father. And I can tell you that it has destroyed us as a family unit. Unfortunately, I think we’re starting to get a lot of that back. I’m incredibly close with my sister. I love her, her husband, her family, and all of that. But nothing’s the same today. It’s not the same. I couldn’t pin it on whether it was the loss of my father, I would say. How it occurs for me is that none of us because we all grew up in the same way. None of us would have been vulnerable enough to tell each other how we really felt about that whole situation. I came to terms with it. I finally had a conversation with my mother about it and how I felt about it, exactly as I just described it. And, you know, my relationship with my mother right now is as good as it’s ever been in my entire life. I think as a result of just getting vulnerable with her and telling her how I feel, you know, some of the feelings I had toward her, had a lot of resentment around her around how she handled it and some other things. And I got through that. I told her about it, I expressed it, and I got really vulnerable. And we got through that. And I was really saddened by the fact that I had held all that back for so many years. And it’s a destructive path because you mentioned it earlier, which is really what triggered me to say this. You hide those things, and you bury those things, and it has this impact on you, and you just don’t talk about it. And it has this emotional Texas emotional toll on you, it takes a mental toll on you, and you just go to a dark place. And it’s easy to go to a dark place. And I think I went there, you know, in a lot of different ways. And I don’t think I was showing up as the person that I’m showing up today. And it’s different. And I tell that story in the sense of, if you can take anything away from it is what we talked about earlier, the power of vulnerability, is what you said it’s a release. At the same time, you know, I talked about the connection between the other powers, which is a really big deal. But the release is something else, and how vulnerability can just release these things. Letting it pass through you, and letting it go out, letting it go. Just letting it go. And I didn’t do that.
Scott De Long
We’ve talked about some personal stories here, which are cool. I’ve got a few of my own that helped me become much more vulnerable. And I think it is much more attractive. I’m not physically attractive to people. People want to be around me because I’m willing to do that. How does it work in the workplace? I mean, these are powerful stories of home life, and I get it. But it works at work. How does the way it is presented work for you? What is vulnerability done for you in your work? But I know you’re the authenticity portion in your organization and making sure people are transparent. Talk about the benefits of being vulnerable in the workplace. Big strong CEO type. Here we are, all these macho guys being vulnerable in the workplace, aren’t they? Are you any good at work?
Vince Moiso
Well, I think Empiric and Burnham have a good story around that. And I think it’s a great way to transition into your business and what happened versus where you’re at today. And where vulnerability mixes in with that.
Scott Epringham
It’s funny because I’m still getting my head around. It’s been recent. For me, it’s a good question of vulnerability. People in my circles know that I had this great company, and lots of employees were making great money. And I lost everything. You not only lost your money but also ended up negative in the hole, half a million bucks, less than everything, less than everything. I mean, I got wiped out. And it was something I was ashamed of. I mean, I lost my family. I lost Mike, you know, not half of me, my kids, my homes, cars, everything just completely wiped out. And yet, I managed to turn things around in a short period of time. And so, but I was sharing this. In my workshops, I will talk about the eight steps to building a social media plan and building your business’s social media. Yeah. In the presentation, I briefly touched on the beginning of this workshop. I spoke about it for two minutes. Hey, in 2018, I lost it. And I came back with a phone call and a lot of hard work and putting this plan together. And I had a friend who lambs in Seattle. He called me out, and I said Hey, how do you think I did this workshop? I got great grades on the workshop. And I was excited. He said, you made one mistake.” I said what did I do? And he goes, you talked for like two minutes about the most important subject. And I said what was happening? He goes, you talked for two minutes about how you lost everything in 2018. You came back, and he was you were making the point that you’re this smart guy. He goes you’d be a lot better off if you just brought that. I don’t know if you use the word authentic, but he said you got to be real. That’s the best part of the story. Man. That’s the best part of the story being told. Like, tell me more about that because we’re all entrepreneurs. We’ve been there. Sure, it happens. Shit happens. I will be if he goes. I would have loved that. Two minutes on that, but like 10 minutes on and hear more about that. And so, in some of the other workshops, I started to do that. And the new stuff that we’re doing, I talk more about that because getting that day in 2018, and I think you got anatomy, or you got out of me, 2018 was a day for me. On July 4, my life changed. And it wasn’t that I put together a social media plan. It was that on WhatsApp, somebody said, how’s your Fourth of July going? And I was thinking about ending, you know, everything. I was in a dark place. And I was in my house, they were ready to take my house, the bank had just called and said, you’ve got 90 days, and I wasn’t going to make it. I didn’t think I was going to make it on the Fourth of July. I got that message. And how’s your Fourth of July? I was fucking hungover. It’s two o’clock in the afternoon, and I’m thinking about eating a bullet. And I had a choice to make it that moment. Either way, I’m fine. I’m doing well. I’m doing good, guys, or just not saying anything. I chose to say I’m not doing so well. And my phone rang. There was a knock at the door. Thirty minutes later, Anthony Djerassi comes over and bangs on the door. We had this great conversation, and that’s a whole other conversation. But the point was, I had a decision to make: Either do what a lot of men do, or a lot of people do. Say Nothing. I’ll be fine. Or I’m not fine. I don’t know how I’m going to handle this, and I’m fucked. At that moment, he reached out, and my life changed. And I wonder, and that was a vulnerability for me, saying I wasn’t fine was. I don’t know, it sounds so stupid. But that was hard to say, I’m not fine. When I got this. I got this, that was
Vince Moiso
Your most your most vulnerable moment. There’s just one stupid thing about it. And I was at, I’m guessing, your second or third workshop after that. Because you had even mentioned, when I was at your workshop, you know, you had mentioned the story about, you know, the feedback that you got from how lamb. And you spent 15 minutes on the story. And that was like you at that point. I think if you asked anybody in the room, and I don’t know how detailed the feedback you got was, everyone would have said had me at hello. You know what I mean? And it’s because you went for 15 minutes and told the story. And then, from there, it’s the power of comeback. But the vulnerability of it was power. You released it; you let it go. It’s become this thing that people can relate to. Why is reality this? We’ve all been in that place. All of us, whether we got to the extreme that you did or just thought about it, we’ve all been in that place. And what I’ve come to understand about vulnerability is even what I described as my moment; we’ve all been in that place, everybody’s been there, and everybody’s had that moment. And I think it becomes this other piece of the power, which is relatable. I can relate to you, De Long.
Scott De Long
What I got out of that is that it takes a ton of courage, especially when we didn’t grow up with men. We didn’t. We weren’t taught this; it takes a ton of courage to be able to be vulnerable. But what I think is the most powerful part of that is the reaction to the vulnerability that you showed. Anthony showed up at your door and knocked on it to take care of you. The do’s and don’ts you liked the do’s and don’ts. And this one gets me because we don’t because we’re fearful of what they might think. And when we do, they think more of us.
Vince Moiso
It’s a tough subject. Tough conversation for all of us. And, you know, I learned I’m referring to landmarks worldwide again. And I learned, you know, this distinction between being right and wrong. And this whole overarching judgment scenario. And all of us as human beings want to be right all the time if we can. We’re just attached to being right. And we’re worried about looking good or looking bad. Vulnerability is that piece that if I’m vulnerable, I’m going to look bad, and that’s not good. And it doesn’t, and I’m not going to be right. It’s like all of it just comes into this one place of okay, well, great, then I’m just not going to say anything, I’m just better off not saying anything, I’m better off holding it in and keeping it. You said something in a conversation earlier, which is, hey, everything that happens with the family stays in the family. I got to show up somewhere and be fake; I must be authentic; what I must be is genuine. I’m going to show up. And I’m going to put that fake smile on my face; we talked about body language in a previous podcast. And now, suddenly, I’ve got to fake the way that I really feel inside. And I don’t know about you guys. It’s the thing I hate the most that I no longer do. And I used to do it all the time. And it was great. I’m going to go to this party tonight. And I got to show up with a smile on my face and pretend nothing’s going on with me. And you know what? I’d rather just not go to that party. Then, I must do that rather than be fake. I’d rather call that person who’s hosting the party and say No disrespect. I love you very much. I can’t show up. And I can’t show up tonight. I’m not in a good place, thus being vulnerable as being authentic. But what do we do? Oh, no, I hate the way that he’s going to think of me. And he’s going to hate me for not showing up, and I got to show up. Meanwhile, I got to go put a smile, fake smile on my face, and pretend that I like everybody that’s there and pretend that I’m in a good place. Hey, how are you doing? I’m great. How are you doing? When I feel miserable inside. I think that’s the way that so many people live and so many people can relate to. And I keep using the term, let it go. And I’m working on that myself. I’ve by no means reached any level of perfection around vulnerability, but I’m getting better. And I will tell you the story I told about my father. If you rewind the clock, about seven or eight years, I couldn’t even get those words out. Seven or eight years ago, I had never told that story. Period. And now, it’s taken that long for me to tell that story without stopping it a quarter of the way through half the way through more stopping it because I was breaking into tears or, you know, some sort of breakdown from it. And that’s okay. Because it takes time, it takes time to heal wounds; it takes time to really let go of these things that drag us down. And I think that’s where vulnerability comes in. Scott, you talked earlier about the workplace. And I want to say this vulnerability has a place for you in all aspects of your life, professionally, personally, whatever that might be socially, it doesn’t matter. I think when you’re willing to be vulnerable, it means you’re willing to be yourself. It means that you are authentic and you’re genuine. And when that shows up for people, they recognize it.
Scott De Long
I love the word willing, and it goes back to most of my work being built on building trust and understanding the concept of trust. And the definition of trust is the willingness to be vulnerable. Willingness was a big deal. For me, when you said that. I got a little different approach to that party you’re talking about when you’re not feeling good. And we talked about this when you walked in the room, and one of my responses that when people say how are you doing? Mostly good. And because that’s true. Shit happens to all of us, then there’s some bad stuff that’s happened today. I’m an optimist. I choose to look at the positive side of life. And I want to go and lead in that piece. And if they question what is mostly good, would it mean what’s not good? You want to know, let’s talk. Now. I’m willing from about the time I hit 50. I’m willing; you want to find out what’s not as good. Let’s talk about it. I want you to know because what I want is a connection. Human connection. And it’s in personal life. It’s in the neighborhood. It’s in business as well. I’m willing to do that in business as well. All businesses are mostly good. What do you mean? Well, there are a couple of things that could be better. What do you mean? Let’s talk about it. And I’ll do that. Let’s go. Because here’s what I want. I want a connection. I want a connection with you or a connection with you. I want to connect with you. And I’m not going to get that by being, Oh, everything’s great. Look how cool my watch is. I got a great car out there. It’s all bullshit.
Vince Moiso
When you’re willing to get vulnerable with somebody, then they’re willing to get vulnerable with you. I mean, it opens the door.
Scott Epringham
With social media, I’ve done consulting with clients. I sat down with one client, and he had an interesting story. Skyler Lewis and I’ll never forget when we were finally when he was launching Rise Up Kings. We were sitting in his backyard. And he said, Listen, I want to talk about porn. I want to talk about issues with my wife. I want to. I’m going all in. I remember sitting with him, and we had a conversation about it. He said, If I’m going to connect with who I really want to connect with, it’s a no-holds-barred thing. And I was super impressed.
Scott De Long
I don’t think it is the wrong word. I think it is the right word. Because the fear is the opposite, they’re going to judge me now, you were impressed with his ability to be vulnerable.
Scott Epringham
He was willing to take that step. I think that’s the other piece of that where I was like, fuck, the guy’s going all in. You really get to talk about like jerking off to porn and like your issues with porn and the wife and like, you’re going all in he goes, you know what, I’m not the only fucking one that’s had issues with any of those things. And I have a feeling it’s a billion-dollar multi-billion-dollar industry, and people are having trouble with their wives. People are having trouble with porn people. He was cheating on the only one as fuck. The guy is going all in this. And I was inspired. And because he was willing to go all in, there was this enormous outpouring of support.
Vince Moiso
I’ve been in your forum with Skylar for five-plus years. And I will tell you he is a hero of mine for sure. I look up to him in a big way, and all say like, like, you always have people like that in your life that drive you to be something. Bigger than you are. And he’s one of those guys, for sure. And knowing Skyler, it’s a great story. It’s an appropriate story for what we’re talking about in this podcast. And he is one of those guys that I look to that is so willing, as De Long put it, so willing to get vulnerable that you can’t help but be vulnerable with him at the same time.
Scott Epringham
And there’s an aspect of service too about serving other people. I think he connects with and it’s it comes through and what he does.
Vince Moiso
In those men that are driven to be a part of the rise, kings are driven because they do or late, you know, I talked earlier about one of the powers of vulnerability, which is just being relatable. And they are relating to that, so everything that you just mentioned that Skyler talked about as he got vulnerable is that he isn’t the only one. He clearly isn’t the only one, and there are a lot of men out there who can relate to that, and they need that channel, that avenue to get them to the next level.
Scott De Long
He talks about the power that he gains in showing whatever weaknesses that we have as humans and accepting those learning from those growing from those who are powerful.
Scott Epringham
I also wonder how bad she’ll know she grows in the dark. I wonder what? There’s also a power and vulnerability of taking light and shining it on it and then fucking eviscerating the crap that’s growing in the dark and knowing how to describe it.
Vince Moiso
It is a great analogy. But what is what is light? Do what is what is the sun? What is the power of that? It does shine a light on the darkness, and you know, allows that to go away. This is going to go on way too long. We can keep going. I want to do a lightning round. Let’s get to the finish line here, and I want to do a lightning round. De Long, you know I like doing this, and Burnham, you’re going to play along. Alright, how do you be vulnerable? Three things that our audience can just take away right now, like, what? What are the top three things to start doing? Or stop doing it? And I’ll let you guys choose the other one. What do they need to start doing today? Or stop doing a combination of the two? Top three? Because I must keep you, guys, for too short a time, you can three or less, but what should they do so that they can open and let go and be more vulnerable in their lives?
Scott De Long
Here’s the thing I learned about vulnerability: It is the most attractive quality I can possess as a human being, not just as a man, but as a human being. Women know this better than we do. They do. They’re better at this. They didn’t have the crap, the sports and the dads, and all that stuff that we had going on. But what I found is that the more vulnerable I’ve become in my life, the more attractive I have been able to attract people, employees, friends, and all of that. That’s my number one thing: It is not the weakness that I was told was that it is powerful. It is a powerful tool to use. Suppose you want to gain relationships. I’m just going to go with one. That’s it.
Scott Epringham
I got this; the first thing that comes to mind is David Goggins in his book Can’t Hurt Me. I think it’s chapter one. He talks about the accountability mirror. And for me, vulnerability started with me; I had to start being honest with myself and stop fucking lying to myself. It wasn’t good enough for my relationships, my body, my spiritual life, and my physical health. Nothing was where I wanted to be. I was done fucking lying to myself and saying, I’m doing good. And I remember, I was like, I read the chapter, the accountability mirror, look yourself in the eye. Look yourself in the eye in the mirror and be fucking honest with you. I choked up because I remember I, like had my towel wrapped around the waist, and I was looking at myself. And I was looking at my life. I was looking at how I was stepping up for my kids, not how I set it up for myself. How I was not, you know, I just fucking looked at, so you did your fucking math’s. It’s so fucking hard. However, for the first time ever, Goggins got me to look at myself in the mirror, be honest with myself, and stop lying to myself. And it was super painful. But it was also liberating at the same time, and I remember I got emotional, like, fuck it, you know, just let it all out. For me, it was starting to be honest with myself and not glossing over all the shit that I’ve been glossing over in the light of shining a light on it and being okay with, like, this is where it is right now. So fucking step up and change it and stop lying to yourself.
Vince Moiso
I love that, and, you know, we’re all challenged to look in a mirror. You know, and nobody wants to be accountable to themselves. It’s easy for me to hold you accountable, but if I’m present, you’re going to ask me to hold myself. What? For me, you know for me, one is just to stop having to be right. I mean, if you just get rid of having to be right all the time. That’s liberating, and once I committed to that, it was completely liberating. Worrying about being judged. And that’s easier said than done. It is easier said than done. However, you know, I continue to work on that, and I get better and better at it every time. Stop worrying about being judged, if you can stop me and right. If you can stop me worrying about being judged, then vulnerability becomes simple and starts letting go specifically of the things that hold you back. And some of those things you don’t even know are there because you’ve hidden them for so long. We talked about that. Like we’ve hidden them for so long. You don’t know they’re there, and you might uncover one, and once you’ve uncovered it, you’re like, oh, wow, there’s a bunch of shit still down there behind the one that I just uncovered. Okay, you got to let go of the things that are really, really pulling you back. And one of the best ways to do it is, you know, you can write it down, I think it’s better to speak it, to speak its name. That’s my opinion; I think there are a lot of people who are in favor of journaling and writing it down. And I think that is a very healthy way to do that. Because you are letting it go by putting it on paper, that certainly is a way to do it. For me, what has helped the most is to speak it and to speak it out loud. And the more I talk about it, the more I let it go. And realize it’s not going to happen overnight. You know, just to say, oh, yeah, I let that go. No, I mean that does; it doesn’t work, right? You know, you’ve got to do the work, you’ve got to, you know, it’s going to take some time. And the more I talk about it, the more I speak it out loud, the more it moves away from me and no longer drags me down. Those are the top things I saw. I want to say this, and just as we conclude this, this was one of the more powerful podcasts that we’ve had; I have had all kinds of emotions that have run through me, not just in sharing but obviously listening to both of you. I’m excited to go out. And I don’t know, if that energy comes through, I’m going to say that it will as this podcast gets released, and I’m thankful for that. Every now, I’m thankful for you coming today. Incredibly insightful conversation, De Long. Thank you for your vulnerability and your body language. And some of the way that you reacted, I could tell in your voice, your tone, and some other things that this had an equal effect and impact on you. I’m excited to go out. Now.
Scott De Long
This one made me happy. I love our topics. I mean, I wouldn’t be doing this. And I didn’t. This one made me happy.
Vince Moiso
I agree. I do want to close with this. Because I think sobriety is a part of vulnerability. You know, and recognizing, you know, you had mentioned, I think, it was just a quick mention of the alcoholism that you dealt with your father. And I think sobriety in yourself. And I think, you know, you mentioned the dark place that you went to which alcohol was involved at that point. At the same time, Scott and I have enjoyed one of our favorite IPAs, which is Pliny the Elder from Russian River Brewing, which we’ve had on a previous podcast. This is nice. I couldn’t help it. But you’re not partaking with us. And I want to recognize the sobriety that you have. And I don’t know if there’s a mention that you want from that.
Scott Epringham
Personal choice; no real mention even mentioned this start and stop. During the accountability mirror, I had to make some choices about things that I would start without Zoom and was on the stop list. Cross off the fucking list. And, for me, it was a major, major crutch. And as I mentioned, it goes back generations for me. It was a personal choice. I said, you know what?” I can be a world-class alcoholic, and I don’t want to do it. And so, for me, once I got it out of my life, my life just improved. And that’s where it is.
Vince Moiso
Now, I know many people who can relate to that. How long do you want the last word?
Scott De Long
This is one of my three top topics. When I talk about life-changing things that happened to me, two of which I’ve done well with, the third, I’m still working on vulnerability and empathy. And the last one that I’m still working on is humility. I think if we master those things, we get it made. That’s what I think. And so, I’d like to do this on the humility piece sometime soon because there’s still a lot, I need to learn on that. But this is a big one. This vulnerability is a big one.
Vince Moiso
I agree.
Scott De Long
At home and at work. It works in both places.
Vince Moiso
I would say you’re right. Does that make you feel good to be right?
Scott De Long
I don’t always have to be right anymore. But in this case, I am.
Vince Moiso
Well, listen, check us out at CEO podcasts.net. Also, look for us on YouTube. If you go on YouTube, just search for our YouTube channel and put in the CEO podcast, and that way, you get to watch us and listen to us at the same time if you prefer and, pre-Nam, you got some things that you want to plug to for your own business or maybe a website or anything that you want any of our listeners to check out.
Scott Epringham
Suppose you’re interested in a workshop. If you are interested in growing your business with social media and you are interested in looking at the eight-step blueprint that we put together, you can go to Scott and burnham.com; you’ll see all kinds of resources and tools and some free stuff available for everybody. And you can also sign up for a workshop there.
Scott De Long
Thank you very much.
Vince Moiso
Thanks for being on the podcast. Cheers.
