In this CEO podcast episode, focuses on conflict resolution processes, emphasizing the importance of recognizing, reframing, and resolving conflicts effectively. Scott and Vince discuss the significance of understanding differing viewpoints and needs, utilizing language to foster understanding, and striving for win-win solutions.
Transcript | Season 1, Episode 14
Scott De Long
Hi, I am Scott De Long; this is Vince Moiso, and I am here at the CEO podcast. This is actually part two of our conflict or series on conflict. We talked a little bit about last time of understanding conflict and reframing conflict. This time, I want to go into some conflict resolution processes. Things that will help get through the conflict so that they become a positive instead of a negative. Does that make sense?
Vince Moiso
It makes perfect sense.
Scott De Long
We are back to drinking the Japanese beer again. We just had some sushi. Life is good.
Vince Moiso
All right. Okay, just get it.
Scott De Long
I am not really a fish guy. But this was pretty good. I am sorry. I can let you know I can do this.
Vince Moiso
Sushi is a decent, man. In Japanese beer, Asahi. We have Sapporo before. I think you cannot go wrong with
Scott De Long
I wanted to do a light one today because it is 88 degrees here in San Clemente. We do not normally get that. So it was warm today. Lighter beer made more sense than one of the heavy IPAs we have been doing.
Vince Moiso
The sushi and the beer went down easy.
Scott De Long
Okay, good. All right. So, conflict resolution process. I mentioned last time that your EO group actually had me come in and talk a little bit about that. It was only a 45-minute talk or something. But it dealt with the process on how to resolve conflict. But let us go back a little bit to reframing it first. And I think that is a that is a good starting point. Reframing conflict is just a difference of opinion. Now, if we can start there, we do not have to be in this fight or flight or freeze mode. We can just say, Okay, great. You think this, I think this, how do we get to the next time? We actually have a course in which we combine conflict and negotiation.
Vince Moiso
I was just going to ask you that. So, how much of conflict resolution is negotiation?
Scott De Long
Most of it? Right? So if we are, if we are dealing with negotiation, and you have this thing that you want to sell for this price, and I kind of want to buy it, but I have got this price, in my mind, we are going to negotiate well, there’s a difference of opinion on the value of that thing. Right? So sure, all negotiation ends up being a conflict. So, this conflict resolution process that we are going to talk about really helps in the negotiation process as well. Make sense?
Vince Moiso
Does it make sense?
Scott De Long
Okay. So, the first thing is to recognize any power differences, if there might be any. So if you are the boss, and you have a subordinate there, there is obviously a power difference there. Right. And generally, it’s going to be the boss is going to be the fighter, and the subordinates are going to be the fleer.
Vince Moiso
Well, we talked about, you know, I mentioned in the previous podcast around understanding conflict; I have mentioned these three natural ways of dealing with conflict: one is to fight, and others freeze, the others flee, and none of which help to resolve conflict. So, how do we avoid falling into that trap? Because I think, you know, we come in contact with conflict, we have this natural reaction, all of us will react in one of those three ways, very naturally; I think the awareness of the fact that that is going to happen, will help in the way that we resolve conflict. And so, Scott, how do we how do we avoid falling into any one of those traps? On who is recognizing what in that scenario. So, you have got leader and subordinate, right? And so who is recognizing what.
Scott De Long
I am hoping everybody does, yes. But I am suggesting that this is the CEO podcast; we are talking to CEOs, we are talking to leaders, we are talking about leadership, it is incumbent upon us if we want to be better leaders, we need to recognize it. Even if theydo notdo not, we need to recognize.
Vince Moiso
I do agree with that completely. I mean, point the finger inward before you ever point outward.
Scott De Long
Sure.
Vince Moiso
Certainly, it is incumbent on us as leaders to take responsibility for recognition in a conflict in the scenario that you pointed out. So if that is with an employee, you know, understand that, that we are going to be intimidating in that situation, whether we like it or not just based off of the organizational structure.
Scott De Long
Sure.
Vince Moiso
And so we have to recognize that we are sitting in a position that is higher than the other, and so immediately in that scenario of conflict, okay, great. We have to recognize that we are going to have to tone it down a little bit. We’re going to have to come up; we’re going to set the tone. Right? So, what are some ways that people can do that?
Scott De Long
Well, again, go back to those three questions. What do I want? Or do not you want what I want for the relationship? Yes? And do I want this dominant relationship in that you are always going to do what I tell you to do and get compliance from you? Or do I want a relationship that, if you are my subordinate, I get a commitment from you? I go for the commitment of compliance. So the first, and then you say, whose responsibility is it? It is 100%. My responsibility; I just did not know. I hoped the other person would think the same thing. I hope that they believe it is 100% their responsibility. But even if they do not, it is my responsibility to do the best I can in dealing with this other human being that I want to have a longer-term relationship with anyway, whether it is subordinate, whether it is spouse, whether it is a child, whether whatever it is, does not matter. But whatever better relationship, it is 100% incumbent upon me to make it better. No such thing as 50/50.
Vince Moiso
I think, you know, I think that the fact when I am thinking of conflict resolution, I think of how important language is in that conversation as you are working to resolve things. And I think back to a very specific example that happened a few years back in, in a business setting, not so dissimilar to what you described, where I had somebody that was reporting to me, and that scenario and I just was, was there just a lot of conflict. I mean, just, you know, from performance to deliverables, to accountability, and things like that, that just was not happening in the time that needed to happen, all sorts of stuff like that. And I remember, you know, ultimately having, you know, reaching that conversation where we have got to get to some sort of resolve so that we are on the same page. And this person responded, Well, how about we call a truce? And I thought, well, a truce would mean are at war. And we are not on the same team. Yet, we are on the same team. So, no, I do not want to call a truce with you. Because I think we are so far apart by the fact that you are just saying, let us call a truce, you know. And that’s why I think language is so important; I think that person saying those words actually took us further apart from the resolution.
Scott De Long
Absolutely. Right. You are not; you are not going to resolve it by ignoring it if a truce is ignoring the thing that is sitting in front of you, right? So we go through a process, and there are some things that you can do step by step in order to work through the conflict yourself. But the first portion is recognizing what it is that you want out of the deal. Start there, if I can do that, and I know that I want a good relationship. All of a sudden, my shoulder softened a little bit, the brows no longer furling. And I am just saying no, that is not what I want to win this battle. What I want is to make something better. In fact, we can probably get to a better resolution between your idea and my idea than we can with just my idea. I Didn’t always believe that, but I believe it. We are smarter than I am. So, if I walk into a scenario with that, I get a good start. So the next thing that I like to do that there’s a there’s a saying that I like to use a lot. And its writing clarifies that I thought they were getting a motion or that place where all these thoughts are swirling around in your head; you can figure things out. And this is tied to that. And this is related over there, and it looks like a spiderweb. In that scenario, the first thing that I want to do is start writing things down. Now, I recommend journaling all the time. But I am talking about conflict resolution right now, too. And we actually have a kind of a two-page document that we hand to people as a tool that gets you to say these things. What is it that I want? Why do I want that? The solution that I am looking for, why do I want that solution? What is important to me is that I got a good handle on that. It is not just to win her levers but just to win. So I have a.thing that I need to do is try to understand from your feet before I even talk to you about it. Understand from your point of view what it is that Vince wants. Why do Vince wants that thing? And what might be a resolution that Vince would be willing to accept?
Vince Moiso
I want to win, Scott, you know, that is the resolution here for me.
Scott De Long
Now, what I do is
Vince Moiso
As long as I win, we’re good.
Scott De Long
So now here is what I would do: look for ways to make you think you want really simple. My wife does it all the time. My idea. So, and that’s part of this conflict resolution process that we are talking about, is if I can make this thing your idea, or get you to come around and understand where I am coming from, or understand better from where you are coming from, and that that that conflict resolution document starts that process. But that is not all of it because I cannot get in your head. I do not know what you are thinking; I know what you are thinking. The first portion that I want to do, and this goes back to the communication process, is to understand from your point of view. The best way for me to understand what you are thinking is to ask you some questions. What is it that you are looking for? How is that important to you? How would that move the ball forward for you? What is it that you want? Tell me why you want that. And if I can draw that out at you, I have a chance to see things from a different point of view. If you look at some of the books on negotiation, they will tell you that win-win solution. That is, come to find out, we might want the same thing; we might want completely different angles so that we can both get what we want without even having to compromise at all. Absolutely.
Vince Moiso
Absolutely. In the concept we talk about asking questions, right, so you are seeking first to understand if one of the ways that you can seek to understand is to ask questions and then just listen. We talked about this, you know, in a previous podcast on communication, we had the two-parter. We talked so much about just listening. And the reality is conflict often comes from somewhere else. In other words, the conflict that is created a business scenario is that person, which might be your customer, might be an employee, whatever, they had a bad day, they got something going on at home, they got something that is going on elsewhere, that is creating this conflict that is happening,
Scott De Long
Or they just see the world differently; whatever the reason, it is irrelevant.
Vince Moiso
My point is this. Sometimes, people just want to be listened to. And you have to recognize that. I think you can get to a resolution really quickly when you can recognize that somebody just needs to be heard. It can be a very good practice. And I’ve practiced this: just shut up and listen, ask the questions, and then shut up and listen because sometimes the person just wants to get something off of their chest. And I will often, not often, almost all the time, look at that person. And I will say, this is what I heard. I hear you say this, and I repeat what I hear. I never give a suggestion. I never provide a solution. I am not listening to solve the problem,
Scott De Long
Or a rebuttal
Vince Moiso
or rebuttal already, that I am just listening. And I repeat what I heard. So they understand, I am listening. I have had it happen many times where the person on the other end simply just said, thank you for listening. That was it. That was enough. And so we have to recognize those situations that you can quickly resolve conflict by listening.
Scott De Long
You use the words that sometimes people just want to be heard. I am going to amend that to say that, almost always, people just want to be heard. So, there is a good starting point. And if I can do that, I can get to a spot where they soften and then be willing to ask, what is it that I want? Not always me; you have some of the fighters out there that are going to push this process to work almost with everybody; here is where it does not work: sociopaths and narcissists are tough to negotiate with those folks. Because they do not give a shit, they do not care about you at all. They care about their thing, and they are going to push, and they are going to win, and they are going to, whatever. So, when I am talking about a conflict resolution process, I am not talking about dealing with a narcissist. But any reasonable, rational human being is going to allow me my turn to be heard if I give them their turn to be heard first.
Vince Moiso
No doubt. Well said
Scott De Long
Even in the little document that I hand to people and say, what is that that I want? To know? Why do I want that? That comes first because I need to spew out my stuff first. But when in practice, I want to find out what you want first because you are going to be a lot easier to deal with. Suppose I have heard you if I have listened to you. If I am not rebutting your thing, it is right to take the bullets out of this. There is no way to resolve a conflict. He told me he wants to, but this and that, or whatever the thing I can trump you, what happens when we do that is we escalate the conflict. I say this, you get defensive and say this, then I get defensive and say this, and we keep going on and on and on and on. And that is what I call unresolved conflict. Well, I talked to read the hostility.
Vince Moiso
I talked earlier about language and the importance of language, and let us just let us just address the but. But it is a word that you need to remove from the conversation because it is negative, and basically, the connotation of it is as soon as you say the word, you have just eliminated everything that was just said. I said all of this, but I just, I just removed all of that, because what I am going to say next trumps it. So you have to remove, but from the conversation, and so I tried switching it to am. I thought that maybe we could talk about this. And, you know, if you start using the word, and it is positive. And, you know, it requires you to continue the conversation and does not negate what was said before
Scott De Long
They actually hear that you said the word. Yes.
Vince Moiso
Yes.
Scott De Long
I heard I do not always agree with you when we have a difference of opinion. No question. Yes, it does not mean, oh, great point, I lose. It does not mean that at all.
Vince Moiso
No, you are not admitting anything.
Scott De Long
And that is not what that means. And if we consider this, have we considered that, the end instead of but, absolutely, yes. If I do not ask that question and what you want, how do I know it is going to be a win for you? I have no idea.
Vince Moiso
Well, I will go back to what you said. You know, you said, I think, one of the very key things. Let’s talk about negotiation and conflict resolution, which are scenarios that are beyond somebody just wanting to be heard. So we are just listening to resolve, and it really is not a negotiation. You have to get to some scenario where we resolve the conflict. It needs to be a Win-Win; when you ask the person what they want, then you are creating a scenario where you are going to understand where you can get to a win-win situation; you do not. Do you have no clue? Because you do not know. You do not know what’s going to make you happy at the end. I am only worried about what’s going to make me happy, so when you can create a win-win, great. What did I say to you, Scott? Earlier, I said I wanted to win as long as I won worked well. So great. Win-win means we both win; I can make that happen. That scenario, that scenario is perfect.
Scott De Long
There is a solution here that we can make so that you win, too, and winning is getting what it is that you want or need or whatever. And I can get what I want to need at the same time. In fact, we are probably going to have a better solution or an overall better solution through this process of conflict resolution. You would not have thought of it because you just wanted whatever it was that you wanted; I would not have thought of it because I just want what I wanted. So we are going to have a solution that is going to produce more than what is even considered
Vince Moiso
Absolutely. No doubt.
Scott De Long
How do you do conflict resolution? Well, the first thing is to recognize that people have a difference of opinion, and that is okay. And more than okay, it is probably good. Suppose I can learn something from you because you think differently than me. That is good. Back in my head, I got that. The second thing is that I want to make sure that we both get the things that we really need. And we don’t always need the first thing that is out of our mouths, right? The first thing that I say is that I want this, but that might not be where the need is. And that is why we ask the questions and try to find out to get to the why. How do we get to why without asking why? Because if I asked you why that was an accusatory sound like you are stupid or sound like that. The next thing that I want to do is ask further qualifying questions.
Vince Moiso
I will change the wider what? What is it? Scott? Is that that might, you know, make you happy in this situation? I have not. Why are you acting like this guy? Why, what, why do you want that?
Scott De Long
What I like even better than that is that I can get you to tell me a story. Then, I do not have to answer a direct question: what is that? Or why is that? And what is certainly better than why? Absolutely. But if I can get you to tell me a story. Oh, that is interesting. I had not thought of that. Tell me more.
Vince Moiso
Tell me more.
Scott De Long
Tell me more. If you start telling me more, you are going to give me all kinds of clues and what is important to you. And guess what? I might be able to get exactly what I want by taking care of whatever it is that you need,
Vince Moiso
and repeat what you have heard. That there so that you are showing that you have a clear understanding of what they said, but tell me more. Okay, what I heard is
Scott De Long
Help me understand things, things along those lines of nature. Because I want you to tell me a story, not just the effect-based kind of a yes or no kind of answer. But a story behind that. Because the story tells me why. What is important, and why is that important? It is going to be embedded in your story if I am listening. So, the conflict resolution process really is not that much different than making friends. Like figuring out how to have a good relationship with people and how to play in the sandbox together, and you get down to it. How do we play in the same everything I tell us all the time? You are not going to learn anything new from me. Everything you need to know you learn by the time you are in kindergarten, which is how to play in the sandbox. The conflict is you would have the same conflicts in kindergarten. Sure, we did. Oh, that is my toy, and that is my toy. And what do we both want? We just want to have fun.
Vince Moiso
And somehow, you get to work through it.
Scott De Long
Work through that, and if I can solve your needs, almost always, you are going to give me an opportunity to get my needs salt as well. Almost always. But barring the narcissists and sociopaths, there are some of those guys out there.
Vince Moiso
And you have to get rid of this fear of conflict; you said that words conflict can be good, right, and caught, and conflict can be resolved. What I find is that so many have a fear of conflict; you know, salespeople have the most fear of conflict; they want so much to look good in the eyes of their customers. They flee from conflict and fear it, which creates fear-based selling. And I think you should be doing whatever you can to get rid of that fear of conflict and understand that conflict is going to happen; it will happen; it is normal. It is okay.
Scott De Long
Because people think differently than I do. Well, then different wants and needs
Vince Moiso
And there are ways to resolve it. These are the nuggets that were given. Okay, so let us let us do our rundown. We are there. I think we have hit the point head-on. Top three: what can you give to our listeners? Top three things for them to get to conflict resolution
Scott De Long
Recognition. The first is to recognize that conflict can be a good thing and does not inherently have to be bad. And that it is 100% incumbent upon me to turn this situation around. That is number one. The second thing is to take the time to write it out, to figure it out, to get these swirling thoughts out of your mind. And to get down to the real issue, the real thing that is important to me, and I can do that by writing it down. And then also take the same document and try to figure out what your needs are, too. And then the third thing is to forget what it is that I need up front. Start being concerned about your needs and trying to understand what those needs are. A lot of clues about your needs; you are going to tell me a lot of things about how I can get what I want by listening to you. Those are my top three,
Vince Moiso
My top three are simple: language, just listening, and when. So language is really important in conflict resolution, and things like help me say things like help me understand what, how can I help? You know, just using simple things that language I don’t use the word but use and instead of that, you know, things like that can really create a scenario that will get you to quicker resolve by using the right language and avoiding the wrong language like the example I gave earlier about, hey, let’s call a truce right now. Do not do that.
Scott De Long
Because the intention is behind that. Bad execution. Yes, absolutely.
Vince Moiso
Absolutely, language is important. The second thing is just listen; I will change rather than oftentimes, you said, always,
Scott De Long
Almost always, people just want to be heard. And I think if you just take the time to listen, help me understand and ask questions. And then just listen, shut up, and listen. Oftentimes, it gets resolved just by listening. It will make me smarter. It will soften them up. And they will give me the opportunity to see how I can thank them.
Vince Moiso
Absolutely.
Scott De Long
It is all kinds of stuff.
Vince Moiso
My third thing is a win-win. You have to create a Stephen Covey, you know, habit is just create a win-win solution. And I think if you get to win-win, it is always the best resolution, you could you could come to out of conflict.
Scott De Long
And when does it make the relationship stronger? Now, it makes you want to do this again instead of avoiding me. And going back to the conventional three questions we talked about in the previous podcast, what do I want to offer them? What do I want for the relationship? I want that win-win because it builds that relationship. It tells you that I am someone you can deal with. Let us do that. Really simple.
Vince Moiso
Thanks for listening. As always, we want your feedback. So let us know. We definitely want to hear from our listeners. And we have heard from so many of you already. And we have created content just based on what you have asked for. Please let us know if there are certain topics you would love for us to discuss. You can contact us, check out CEOpodcast.net, And leave us a message there. And will certainly
Scott De Long
I want something even better than. If you got a conflict that you cannot resolve a very specific conflict that you have been struggling with. And you need some help resolving it. Give us a call. We will help you. Show your process. I meant to show you the process.
Vince Moiso
Count me in.
Scott De Long
Till next time.
Vince Moiso
Cheers. Thanks for listening.
